Curse

moriz · Feb 07, 2009, 03:24 PM // 15:24

interrupts.

i guess i'm the only one crazy enough to run 4 interrupts, 3 of which has recharges under 15 seconds.

kostolomac · Feb 07, 2009, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Do you run them in HM?

faraaz · Feb 07, 2009, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Because of my geographic location, I never have a ping below 400-500...nailing interrupts reliably in HM is insanely hard (even NM requires a fair degree of prediction).

Insofar as PvE is concerned, [You Move Like A Dwarf!] is a sexy interrupt. As for Mesmers? I'd say a blanket 33% recharge time reduction for PvE OR restoring some Mesmer elites to what they were earlier ([Mantra of Recovery]).

And here's the problem I have. While vanquishing in Perdition Rock, as an example, my Mesmer could [Cry of Pain] [Cry of Frustration] 3 Hydras...the fourth one nearly wiped out my entire party with the Meteor Shower it got off. Maybe I'm laggy. Maybe I'm not a leet interrupter. But faster recharge will definitely help Mesmers do what they do best in PvE, is my point.

pingu666 · Feb 09, 2009, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

well, after playing through all the campaigns with a mesmer (and not dying once, legendary survivor here i come!), i've come to the conclusion that mesmers do not need any changes.

mesmers are quite good in pve. however, a lot of people PERCEIVE them to be bad at it. why? it's because the hallmark of a good mesmer is that nothing will happen.

by "nothing will happen", i mean that the party can continue rolling on forward, without the mesmer doing anything. or at least, not visibly. the standard pug players probably won't notice that the big caster boss no longer blows people up in two shots. they probably won't notice that annoying melee boss now folds without putting up much of a fight. they might not notice that an overaggro no longer wipes everyone. indeed, they might not notice that they've overaggroed at all. and last but not least, they most definitely won't notice the mesmer is doing anything other than some purple spell effects, where in fact the mesmer is flying at 250 APM, constantly shutting down the most dangerous stuff to allow the rest of the team to function.

(and before you ask: "wtf APM? this isn't starcraft!" well, mesmer in pve is almost completely about the APM. fast fingers means more stuff gets shut down)

and this is why mesmers are perceived to be weak. everything they do are not particularly visible. they can buy you a few more seconds to act, they can soften up something that's particularly strong, and they do it all while being completely invisible.

if i want caster shutdown ill take a ranger with broad head arrow, blindbot/wards for melee shutdown, if i want single targets to die friggin fast, then a good assassin will be awsome.

ineptitude should hex longer than 4 seconds, inspiration magic shouldnt suck, cos atm GOLE is functionaly better. with 0 point invenstment.

mainly its the long recharges, poor energy management and the self gimping of certain skills if you messup

you need to play a mesmer better(player skillwise) than a ele,necro,smitemonk etc tobe equaly effective

draxynnic · Feb 09, 2009, 10:50 AM // 10:50

I've actually put the new version of Chaos Storm to use. Could do with a tad more damage, but a cheap, armour-ignoring, long-lasting DoTAoE can be useful.

On the talk about shorter recharges...one idea that's been raised for making primary Mesmers more attractive is giving Fast Casting a small, direct reduction in the recharges of Mesmer skills, at least in PvE. Thoughts? (Note that this also implicitly improves some of the Mesmer energy management by allowing it to be used more often...)

smilingscar · Feb 10, 2009, 03:09 PM // 15:09

It's funny how people will take a thread I had intended to be a contest/sweepstakes thread to generate ideas and turn it into a debate thread about the usefulness of mesmers in PvE on a whole or by simply stating the skill is balanced/useful as it is. What's the fun in that? Forget for a second about how these skills can be used now and think about how it could be changed to keep that use but also make it more appealing and balanced against other professions.

I hope people will keep in mind two lines from my original post:

Quote:

This is not really a debate thread

Quote:

You can post comments on other people's posts, but only if you submit an appropriate skill balance in your post

I'm not going to be a tyrant about them, but try not to just post random tirades about how awesome your mesmering is. Be more creative.

Now about [[Chaos Storm], yes it can be useful as a mesmers only dot aoe spell. I've used it myself, but generally only found it to only be useful in causing melee beasts to scatter away from my casters. And nowadays, if I want that I'll just bring snowstorm, ten second recharge ftw (I know not fair to compare it to a pve-only-skill, but the gap could stand to be a bit smaller). Honestly, 5 ranks in smiting prayers gives me a [[balthazar's aura] with total damage equal to what I can get at 12 ranks in domination except foes can't flee from it, it has bigger packets of damage, and [[auspicious incantation] makes up for the energy and put's the recharge within a few seconds of Chaos Storm.

That's really, really sad.

And BTW, I think kostolomac wins last week with:

Quote:

Backfire:Elite Hex Spell. For 10 seconds, target foe and adjacent foes take 15...75...90 damage whenever they use a spell.
10e,2sec cast,20 recharge.

Now there's a skill I'd actually consider using alongside of VoR instead of just replacing it with it. It may be a scooch overpowered, but a viable cure for that would be to limit it to 0...1...2 adjacent foes and bring the recharge down a bit (many mesmer hexes could be balanced in that way, it seems). I just wish there were more than FOUR suggestions for that skill to pick a winner from. ::cries::

If you want it, kostolomac, there's a mesmer tome and some dwarven ale waiting for you...

And last for this giant post: I'm going to let Chaos storm run another day or two until someone provides a buff that would make me not feel lame to bring the skill into an elite area.

kostolomac · Feb 10, 2009, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by smilingscar

If you want it, kostolomac, there's a mesmer tome and some dwarven ale waiting for you...

Thanks for the offer , but I don't really have use for this stuff. Already have all decent mesmer skills unlocked and don't pursue the alcohol title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smilingscar

And last for this giant post: I'm going to let Chaos storm run another day or two until someone provides a buff that would make me not feel lame to bring the skill into an elite area.

Not every skill needs to be good for an elite area. But here goes another suggestion:
Chaos storm:
5e,1cast,20recharge;
Target foe and adjacent foes are hexed for 10 seconds with Chaos storm, they suffer 8...15...17 damage each second and lose 1...4...5 energy whenever they cast a spell.

The skill would be a hex and it will always damage the foes , but drain less energy. Also the recharge is reduced since the skill would only be useful with AP with a 30sec recharge.

Quote:

ineptitude should hex longer than 4 seconds, inspiration magic shouldnt suck, cos atm GOLE is functionaly better. with 0 point invenstment.

The bad thing about Ineptitude is the e-cost , maybe lowering the damage and making it like [Clumsiness] with blind would be nice to do damage and support the party. Inspiration magic has good e-management , rarely any need to take GoLE. [Auspicious Incantation] is all I need.

draxynnic · Feb 11, 2009, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Option A: Double damage, half duration.

With a low energy cost and casting time, I'd be hesitant to make it strictly better in all situations, but this would make it deal damage faster and less susceptible to scatter. It does possibly make it weaker in PvP when the energy denial is more important... but I suspect it doesn't see much use in PvP either. Although I'm open to being corrected.

Option B: Energy Burn-style damage when energy is drained.

Two points of damage per point of Energy drained makes it a somewhat situational but longer-lasting version of what Option A gives. Three or four makes it a kind of Sandstorm-equivalent for using against casters, and is probably close to the practical limit without increasing the casting time, energy, or granting the spell Elite status.

Option C: Combination of A and B, with a practical upper limit of three points of health per point of energy lost.

Personally, I'm inclined towards B. The concept seems to be that it's low-level unconditional damage with a hefty penalty towards casting spells in the effect - B just makes it an effect that matters against PvE opponents. Players will generally still want to get out because they do care about the energy loss, but the extra damage adds a little more incentive... and a little more benefit if a PvP opponent is trapped within the Storm.

Moonstruck Muse · Feb 12, 2009, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Well, here's the deal about balancing skills out and buffing mesmers? I find them to be pretty darn fine all ready.

Yeah, CoP could use some stuff. But the odd thing is, no one really mentions the cousins of [Cry of Pain]; [Wandering Eye] & [Clumsiness]. Those are my fav bring alongs and due to a bit lesser dmg, I don't find them as OP but still nice.

I agree, messies, at least on the most common branch, interrupts, don't appear to do anything. If you happen to be targeting who they are, then you hopefully will notice their worst skills dying on the table, but otherwise...

Regardless, I'm not exactly sure if mesmers need as many of these buffs or balances people call for. Some, yes, but not a whole reworking.

However, I will admit.. many skills need reduced recharge, OR the idea that people have been saying; having FC reduce recharge a little in PVE. I mean a messie's FC isn't too great when you have 30-40+en (akuz who can't Emanage these days?) and are waiting on recharges.

[Backfire]... I find to be quite fine. Maybe a reduced recharge would be better, yes, but just slap it on some enemie monks & you're fine.

On the [Chaos Storm]; can you say useless? But then again, I can find some equally useless skills in war or ranger or what have you. However, what if it, say, added a bit of a slowdown? Sort of a "shock" effect, so that they at least take a hit or two in it, instead of "Oh I cast my spell and the enemy is waaaay over there now".

Edit: A little PS here, where I think messies really need help is starting areas. My first toon was a mesmer, and I couldn't do anything on there without help. But my friend who was an ele? Pfft. She was clearing areas to level while I was trailing trying to use the crap ints they give early on.

Painbringer · Feb 12, 2009, 03:13 PM // 15:13

[chaos storm] it says chaos in the name but it certainly is not chaotic. Double the damage and then we can start talking chaos. Or leave it the same and just double the size of area it affects.

Why can’t mesmers with all there slowing skills have one that causes cripple? Yes they have a skill that self induces [illusion of haste] it but no cripple skill to target foe. Would it be to powerful? What if

[Imagined burden] would cripple instead of hex

pingu666 · Feb 13, 2009, 06:49 AM // 06:49

on a 10e skill your looking at needing to run 10 or so in inspiration to match gole, on a 15e skill its 4. so it really varies with what your intend to combo with it, and gole isnt a enchantment, which is probably a advantage...

how about backfire doing damage and stealing a small amount of energy?

choas storm, double the damage, reduce it to 5seconds, shorten recharge
maybe more than double the damage

draxynnic · Feb 13, 2009, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painbringer

[chaos storm] it says chaos in the name but it certainly is not chaotic. Double the damage and then we can start talking chaos. Or leave it the same and just double the size of area it affects.

I think the theory behind Chaos Storm is that the chaos is on the psychic level. Not much if any physical harm - maybe causing a headache - but casting spells becomes a LOT more difficult.